Btw creeping death consistently crashes my game but it might be in issue with the way i download itch games but if it works for other people can you let me know
Really cool game. One issue I have is that the shop feels pretty underwhelming, specifically because of the prices making it not really worth going for. Overall though, Really Solid. Can't wait for the full release
It is! The version uploaded here is the final itch.io demo, and I've moved the beta testing to Steam. If you're interested in helping beta test, just let me know and I can send you a key. Thanks!
Sorry I don't think you can DM through itch.io. If you join the Discord server you can message me directly or request a key in the key-request channel. You can drop the server immediately after if you want, not trying to recruit for the server :)
it may be prudent to nerf the 3PW "all cards are free" card for the ninja - using it in conjunction with the 1PW increasing damage card means one turn kills on whoever is within range regardless of hp, and it's not hard at all to get 3 power if you play things right
depends on your vision of the game, but this seems a litttle too OP (or i might have just gotten REALLY lucky)
Thanks for the "insta-win" combo! Definitely not intended, it should only make the first cast free, and once it's placed back in hand it should cost the standard amount, so I'll have to patch that up.
As for looping, the beta has been removed and replaced with an actual limited-content demo. Characters, cards, upgrades, levels, etc. are all limited in nature to give a hint of the product and not the whole thing.
That said, in the next few weeks I should have the current beta version available on Steam that people can request to be let into. If you're interested in finding out about that I'll be making an announcement in the Discord channel when it's available.
glad to be of any help! i'll certainly join the discord when i can - this is a really fun and intuitive game while still retaining a lot of challenge!
i'd also like to note that teleportation is extremely busted in certain room configurations - i was able to teleport into an area that was entirely blocked on all sides by walls with my low health ninja and use them as a farm for energy, which synergized nicely with my soldier's extreme tank build (multiple kitchen sinks, cover, passive damage). it was really satisfying to pull off, but i'm not sure that's intentional (certainly not as OP overall, but still)
another few things:
the ninja's bleed stacking upgrade is a LITTLE op, as it effectively means infinite damage on all enemies if you play your cards right and get a little lucky (the only difference being that it's slow and takes skill to avoid death with)
i may be playing things wrong, but credits and the shop in general feel a little bit underutilized/underpowered - the amount of investment you need to take (possibly eschewing upgrades or events for credits that will get you only a maybe-good item) isn't always the best in reference to the stuff gained. shops have saved a few runs, but they haven't exactly MADE them - just gave me a bunch of rolls to get a game winning card or upgrade. i rarely get enough credits to buy anything more than one card/upgrade that matters, and i'm not sure that's intentional (given that you need to sacrifice at minimum two card rolls or get lucky with events to buy anything)
This game is amazing even in its current state. The only downside I could find is it's not very visually appealing.
I faced a lot of crashes during enemies' turns but I hope it would be fixed in the future. There is also this bug which applies the same debuffs on my Ninja when Flashbang detonated without him in range.
Thanks! I see a large number of crash reports recently that I'm assuming are from your sessions, and they are all patched in the current (soon-to-be-released) version! The Flashbang is working as intended, same with any grenades, that they affect any character, not just hostiles :)
Do you mind if I ask what you don't find visually appealing about the game? Do you enjoy pixel art at all? Other than some minor changes like small animations to give combat environments more life, there won't be any major overhauls to the graphics. But I'm always happy to take criticism into account for future works!
Thanks for noticing me. I don't hate pixel art at all. I'm not an expert at this so my opinion my be poor on this topic. Let's take Noita for a reference, it has beautiful explosions, light and water effects. I don't like that game for its gameplay but it sure have temped me and made a lot of people want to give it a try just by seeing those effects in the trailers. If you can give the game some more detailed explosions with more particles or some more characters' animations, it may give players a somewhat better first impression.
Yes, I know Flashbang affects all characters in its range but the bug I got applied the same debuffs on Ninja even though he's 3 tiles away from its perimeter. It occurred only on my first run so I'm not sure how to recreate it.
I also found this one bug happening quite a lot during the cards activation. When my cards got unhidden, it appears that my power wasn't consumed while the activated card came back to my hand. It can be repeated around 4 times or even infinitely before it is sent to the discard pile. I got this bug mostly with Hacked Pistol.
Thanks for the feedback! I spend so much time looking at the game that it all kind of blends together after the first thousand hours, so it's nice to have someone else take a stab at it.
The flashbang is odd but I can try to replicate it, or at least I'm aware of what to look for. Is it possible the Ninja and another character had the Linked buff, and it applied to both of them? Currently the only way to apply that is with the Engineer, so no enemy could have done it, it would have to be something you chose to do.
I thought I had removed the ability for player input during a card being discarded, but my guess is with the Hacked Pistol in particular it's allowing input during the turret activation. Thanks for the report! That type of issue is such an edge case that I doubt I'd have ever found it on my own.
Thanks! The looping is just in place right now to let you find more cards and synergies, and is absolutely not how the game will work. The complete game will have 3 full levels with a boss at the end of each.
Unfortunately I do not plan to release for mobile - initially it will be a PC-only release. If through some miracle it sells well enough I will consider console ports, but it wasn't designed with mobile in mind from the start, and there are so many pieces that would have to be completely redone to accommodate that.
Thank you for the kind words, and I'm sorry that you're experiencing bugs that are making your experience worse!
There are currently two known bugs that have been resolved in the next patch - infinite turrets being placed on a single cell, and a complete crash when the Timed Explosive detonates with no targets in range.
There are also other, harder to replicate bugs related to pathfinding and turn logic, which usually result in the game locking up. I am rewriting all combat logic from scratch to use a system that will not only help resolve most of these issues, but make it much, much easier to track down and locate similar problems in the future. This is the bulk of the work going into the patch for next month, and while it won't be noticeable to the player, it will be a huge benefit in the long run for the game itself.
If you're able to, press F8 and submit a bug report - it not only sends me what you type, but also object states and variable data that are helpful in tracking down what the game was doing when the crash happened to I can replicate and fix it.
The full version will be for sale on Steam, and up until that version is released the demo will remain available on itch.io. I haven't yet decided if I will sell it on other storefronts or not, but it's definitely possible!
I can't wait for the complete version of this. Had fun with the demo, though crash multiple times. I'm unable to beat the boss because of this. Would love to try again when it's patch
Know I'm kinda late to the party, but in the hopes that this project is still under development, I thought I'd give some feedback :)
Just finished my first and only run (after the tutorial) in the second loop after encountering a bug that stopped me from progressing. I used the "report incident" shortcut (F8), and hope you can find the cause. Despite the abrupt end, I had a good time!
First off, my biggest concern is the lack of strategic importance put on positioning (at least when playing paladin and mountain). I realize this might be rooted in a balancing issue, but I hardly ever used move cards at all, and after the first loop, I got rid of them. The enemy will swarm at you regardless, and having a bunch of cards that can't deal or mitigate damage is simply a handicap. In addition, I got one upgrade that gave me permanent cover, and another that gave me dashes every turn.
Secondly, I never had a man down (though I obviously never got that far), but I can see how that mechanic could potentially be frustrating. It means struggling players will have a harder time from then on, with the odds gradually stacking up against them. Considering how few and weak your options of healing are, I'm guessing it's pretty likely for the same character to die repeatedly (as they are only revived with 5 hp)
Thirdly, I think the virus mechanic is really cool, especially how their severity scales with how much power they take to get rid off, but I found that I would often spare the last opponent in a room just to wait until I could remove them. This is somewhat reminiscent of healing with certain deckbuilds in "slay the spire" which you mention as an influence, but I still think it can become a chore. Without the experience to back it up, I also think it will be strategic to just get rid of all your bad starting cards in the first, easiest loop, where the handicap of a virus is manageable, but I don't think that's the most fun way to play. Maybe make the power-cost decrease per room/battle instead of per use?
Fourthly, a couple of ui-issues: As someone else just mentioned, there are several points where I get a prompt to make a choice, and can't look at my decks or upgrades. I might just be spoiled after "into the breach", but I would also love some way of checking the enemy turn-orders (though I can see how this could be a little too "gamey"). There were also a few times where I wanted to check the AOE of a card, but had to make the power for it first. I think it would be nicer if you could select a card, even if you can't afford it.
Fifthly, I think the shield-mechanic is interesting, but has a few problems. It's already a bit weird that the shield you get from cover stays with you once you leave it, or that it helps you against attacks from behind, but once I got used to that, it didn't bother me. The real problem is scaling, and how after just one loop, enemies started dealing so much damage that the 3 shield you got from cover is almost negligible. It ends up as sort of a wasted mechanic with little impact. Maybe increase the amount gained from cover per loop? Also, the fact that almost half of the attacks that hit me would deplete all the shield I had, regardless of the amount, and how this obviously led to the "armored" status-effect just to counter it, is a bit clumsy. It makes going for a shield-build seem unreliable. Maybe remove or reduce the amount of shield-drain enemies, and make shields slowly deplete per turn instead?
Sixthly (are these even words anymore?), I think character-locked upgrades is frustrating. Several times I leveled up and got new upgrades, just to find that both characters got the one I wish I could put on the other, rendering them nearly useless. Especially since you have the upgrade rooms where you actually do get to choose as a comparison. One of the great joys in any tcg or rpg is the feeling of optimizing your build, and this made them feel clunky and imperfect.
Seventhly, I was a bit confused on this point, but I believe you only draw cards up to your hand-limit every turn. This means you are sort of punished for not spending all your cards, because you'll draw fewer in the turn to come (allowing you to play fewer cards overall). This incentivises individually strong cards instead of synergies (which are more fun in my opinion). There might be some aspect to this I haven't realized, but otherwise, I would heavily suggest to just allow the player to draw a set amount of cards, the delayed turn is punishment enough!
I'm not going to delve into features that are just a matter of more content, like more diverse enemies or interactable objects on the battlefields, but I do hope you make the card-pools character specific (the decks of my paladin and my mountain ended up very similar).
I also wanted to mention the theme, even if it isn't strictly criticism. I think what you touch on with the viruses and the sci-fi tech like teleportation is really cool, and I'd love to see this game take that matrix-esque direction. I'm personally a bit put off by the "modern warfare"-aesthetic, and I also guess some of the more lacking mechanics and designs are pulled along with it. I'm not suggesting to make the whole dungeon a simulation or anything (though saying that, it does sound cool), but it's something to consider.
As someone interested in game-design, I had a lot of fun writing this out, and if you can find some use for it, that would just be an added bonus!
Hi, thanks a lot for all of your feedback! I'll address what I can in response :)
Clearly I need to make this more apparent, but Paladin and Mountain are just randomly-generated names - both of those characters are of the Soldier class and have the same deck and upgrades to choose from. Currently there are two classes in game, the Soldier and the Ninja, with at least one more (Engineer) planned. I recently added the ability to play as the same class just to give people another option since playing as just the Soldier and Ninja each time could get repetitive.
The looping is just a temporary solution to let the player see and experience more deck and upgrade synergies - the full game will have three environmental levels to complete, each with unique enemy encounters. A lot of the enemies in the first (and only) level are melee, pistol, and shotgun enemies, which forces them to get into close range to the player. While the option for a non-movement deck should be a possibility (with things like stacking Stealth for the Ninja or long-range sniper cards for the Soldier), movement cards are admittedly not as important for the Soldier as they are for the Ninja or Engineer.
Funny enough, your point about viruses is one I put a lot of thought into, as optimizing the fun out of something is always what good players will do, and what you described is exactly how I saw it playing out. In my current build, I've changed removing cards to be an option post-combat instead of adding a card. I feel that missing out on a card or money is (for now) a fair price to pay for removing a card, and viruses can also be removed this way. I like allowing the player to remove viruses during combat, too, though. By trashing the virus once it's recycled, it ensures that if you want to wait it out like you chose to, you have to suffer its effects each turn as you can't just recycle it and wait for it to be drawn again once combat is safe. Once the game is better-balanced, hopefully the penalty of not only losing a card slot to keep it in-hand, but the negative effects themselves each turn, will be a better risk/reward choice than the optimal choice to make every time.
The current Shielding mechanic is after numerous iterations, and apart from the Soldier having the option of playing a "tank" class, it's meant to prevent or reduce damage from a single attack. This is another important aspect of movement cards - since you can view the attack range of enemies, and always have their intended target and action, movement becomes a defensive option to prevent them from reaching you to attack. I'm not saying it's perfect, and I'm sure some more adjustments will occur, just giving you the reasoning behind it :)
For upgrades, each character class has around 15 unique upgrades, and there are 10 upgrades that are class-neutral. The class-specific ones are always chosen from for reaching level 3 (also I hate the term 'level' for that and need a better phrase/graphic), and the shop will contain 1-2 character-specific upgrades. Neutral upgrades are always at least one shop option, and are always chosen from upgrade machines. I think your frustration was coming from playing the same class for both characters and seeing ones you wanted to swap with. Since levelup upgrades are class-specific, and require the character to have three consecutive combats without dying to gain, there are no plans to allow them to be swapped between characters.
I went with the option to draw up to your hand size each turn for two reasons - one, initially it was a simple discard/redraw each turn. I like that style because it forces you to work with what you're given rather than what you want, but I also liked the option to 'set up' plays yourself. Since NOT recycling a card reduces your power gain each turn, I made the change to let the player choose to not recycle a card and hold on to it between turns. If the player can hold cards and then draw ADDITIONAL cards each turn, this would produce strategies to run and hide for as long as possible to build up a giant hand, and then unload everything at once. By capping the hand size each turn, it still retains that 'work with what you have' strategy, while providing the option to save up for a wombo-combo if you're willing to make some sacrifices to do so.
Finally, the theme is absolutely cyberpunk, and additional character, environment, and ability designs should reinforce this as more content is added :)
Thanks again for all of the feedback, you've given me a lot to think about and work with, and that's the best thing I can ask for!
Thanks for the in-depth answer! Looking forward to playing when it's further along in development :D
It was maybe a bit arrogant of me to write such a lengthy review based on a single, unfinished play-through (obviously, my misconception about the classes solves quite a few of my issues (Not a ridiculous mistake, one of them were named "paladin" :P)). Looking at the character-specific upgrades again, I also think it will solve itself automatically once the shop has more stuff I'd want (so taking cash instead doesn't feel like you're foregoing one of the limited options for a permanent upgrade). I don't think you should underestimate how much better some of the upgrades are compared to cards though! (as they don't cost power, don't take up a card slot AND goes into effect immediately), so missing out on an upgrade should pay very well!
If shield was supposed to always disappear with a single hit, I think I ran into another, tiny bug
I see your first point about the hand-limit, but I don't think the "save up cards, then unload all at once" strategy sound so bad. In my experience, the only time i could use movement to "run away from danger" was against melee-enemies on the first turn, and it requires you to somehow mitigate the damage on the turns where you aren't doing anything. Also, these "god-turns" where you just decimate the enemy and feel super clever and powerful can be kind of fun. You obviously know the systems wayyy better than me though, so if you think it would break the game, you're probably right ;)
Me: I wonder what would happen if you crossed XCOM with Slay the Spire?
Whispering Spider: You're welcome.
I am loving this so far. It's a whole lot of fun and has a lot of strategic decision making. The only thing I have a little trouble with is that there isn't really a lot of early aggro management, so it's extremely hard to keep my ninja alive until I start getting cards like Doppelganger, All for One, Meat Shield, etc. Is there a rhyme or reason to the targeting of enemies, or is it random? I usually have about 75% of mobs in a room targeting the ninja, so I'm not sure if this is totally random or intentional.
Thanks a lot! Those two games are definitely influences, and I hope that my game is unique enough to build off of other games that I look to for inspiration :)
As for your question about aggro management, currently enemy target selection is 100% random. Way back in the day when it was a straight SRPG things like threat, distance-to-target, and target HP were all built-in to the AI. Since making the shift to cards, however, it became super not-fun to juggle aggro on top of random abilities each turn, so enemies choose their ability, and then have a 50/50 chance to target each player character if it's an offensive ability.
For now that's how it's likely to stay, but I understand the frustration of a streak of bad luck, so at some point down the line I may add some kind of 'bad luck protection' where it will weight the other character's chances of being selected higher after consecutively choosing the same character.
Thanks again for your interest, kind words, and feedback, and keep your eye out as a pretty large patch will be released in the next day or two!
As far as looking to games for inspiration, I always think about Doom and Diablo. Back when they were released, everyone (myself included) called similar games Doom clones and Diablo clones. But now they are First Person Shooters and Action Role Playing Games.
You can have a game that wears its inspiration on its sleeve and still distinguish it with unique mechanics or settings, just as Hostile Takeover does. It's not a "Slay the Spire" clone, but a Tactical Roguelike Deckbuilder.
For the aggro portion, maybe one of the ninja's starting cards could be one that helps offset squishiness. Dodge helps, but there are a ton of times where I need more than one move and the +3 shield doesn't usually help all that much. Meat Shield is definitely my favorite, and doesn't push you towards a certain build like any of the clone cards would.
Anyway, just my two cents. I'm exicted to see the new patch, and I'll be playing this a lot for the forseeable future.
Very well implemented game mechanics. Very fun for the deck-builder in me. I like the strategy of choosing between which cards to use and which to recycle. Makes combat more interesting, like a simplified version of chess. Looking forward to future updates!
Some notes follow:
The boss could use more minions or perhaps some special moves, as he's not much challenge. I wish there was a separate screen for the Upgrades, as it seems like its going to run out of space during my 3rd loop. Plus, it would just be more visually appealing. The taunting cards should actually play some kind of sound when used. There should be an indicator and/or a lockout method for trying to purchase/choose an upgrade you already have. As such, I actually bought TWO Steroids cards from the shop thinking they would stack with the other one I had already found, when sadly all I did was waste 200+ credits.
I have some issues with combat not resolving when using the Soldier's base shotgun cards (I think its called Buckshot?). It only started happening after my 2nd loop and also after I modified one of them to have 0 cost/Trash. Since then, about a third of the time I use a Buckshot (be in the 0 cost one or not) the card will do damage but then stops and never allows me to continue my turn. The red range indicators still appear so I suspect whatever event controls the ending of that card is bugged?
Hi, thank you so much for the kind words, and especially for the feedback!
Would you mind expanding on what you mean by a separate screen for the Upgrades? To view which upgrades you have installed? Currently you can view those when viewing your deck in the upper-left, but I know it's not ideal and it likely won't be the final way to view them.
I'll have to look into why existing upgrades are being offered up, that's definitely a bug! Right now it should just give you a generic +MaxHP mod if no other upgrades are available, but clearly that's not the case.
As for the game getting stuck after using an ability, that's an old bug that I hoped was finally resolved as of version 0.811, which was released Friday 8/11. Is that the version that you were playing? If so, it's back to the drawing board for that problem. Also if it gets stuck on you again, pressing F8 will allow you to submit a bug report which also grabs the state of all in-game objects and sends it to me, which is a huge help in tracking down bugs!
Thanks again for the interest and the feedback, it's much appreciated :)
Not a problem. I'm happy to give my feedback on something I had so much fun with.
Upgrades: Yes, to view which ones I have currently installed. Correct, they are shown in the upper-left when viewing your deck. My issue is that after so many loops through the game it will very likely be the case that I will run out of room for them in such a small horizontal space. That's all. It'd be nice to see their art in original size as well. That's why I was asking for a separate screen for them, pretty much identical to how you view your deck.
As far as the upgrades in the store, I never ran across one that increased my max HP (that would have been very useful!) but perhaps that's because I didn't buy every single upgrade that was offered to me, only the ones that seemed worthwhile. But yes, during my 2nd loop the store offered not one but two Steroids cards for my characters to purchase, even though I already had one installed on my Ninja.
Version: Ahhh, I see. I currently have version 0.719 so perhaps that bug did in fact get fixed. I'll keep the F8 reporting function in mind in case things happen again. In the meantime it seems I need to download the newest version. I suspect that means it'll restart my progress, which means I still don't get to try out that third character yet LOL.
Also, nice to see a developer responding to feedback! Good on you :)
When the character windows are opened I'm working on putting in tabs on the left-side to switch between characters, and tabs at the top to switch between Cards and Upgrades using the same card view. Hopefully that should help alleviate that issue!
I'll have to look into why the upgrades aren't looping properly, that one is definitely a bug. Each upgrade should never be offered twice, and since there aren't enough upgrades currently in-game to handle looping, it should just offer the +MaxHP upgrade when it runs out for now.
Currently the Engineer isn't in-game yet, so there's no progress to be lost :X The next patch is making the final changes to core systems (card removals and viruses are getting reworked) and filling out the remainder of the core cards for the Soldier and Ninja. The Engineer will likely be next, so she should be playable sometime in early October.
If you're interested in keeping up with things and providing more feedback Discord is a great place for it, and sometimes other people will chime in with their thoughts, too! If you want to join here's a link, and if not that's cool, too. Thanks again!
Hey, no problem! I'm happy to offer constructive criticism (especially if it means the game gets better!)
Tabs would be awesome and I think a great way to save space.
I never did try to click the Engineer, so that's why I had mentioned it in my previous comment. After I had beaten the game once, her character art was in color instead of black and white so I was certain I had unlocked her. I was afraid I'd end up losing all the good stuff I'd built up already so I didn't try a new game. Speaking to that, would it be possible to have a few save slots instead of just the current game you have going?
I'm on Discord for voice acting projects so I have no problems joining your server. I'll do that now and leave these comments here. Thanks for your hard work!
Edit: BTW I just wanted to mention that I can't speak to anything regarding Viruses. I actually never died and had to gain one XD
Thank you so much! As the game has shifted into what it is today I definitely don't hide its influences. I just hope that it's unique enough to offer something different than the other games currently available :)
Thanks! I think the recycling adds a lot more options and choices than a simple mana/power bar that refills every turn, and I'm glad at least one other person agrees :)
Hey! This game is really great! I appreciate the mechanical considerations and enjoy the tactical problems posed by each challenge. I'll tell my friends about it and I look froward to seeing how it will develop.
Hey, thanks a lot! I'd love to hear any feedback (especially negative) that you have. If you're interested in providing any I've got a Discord server with channels specifically for providing feedback - https://discord.gg/BdwueB6. If not, no big deal, and thanks again for playing!
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Btw creeping death consistently crashes my game but it might be in issue with the way i download itch games but if it works for other people can you let me know
Really cool game. One issue I have is that the shop feels pretty underwhelming, specifically because of the prices making it not really worth going for. Overall though, Really Solid. Can't wait for the full release
It’s been a while since the last patch note I was wondering: Is the game still being worked on ?
It is! The version uploaded here is the final itch.io demo, and I've moved the beta testing to Steam. If you're interested in helping beta test, just let me know and I can send you a key. Thanks!
Sure ! I’d be really happy to help you beta test the game!
Sorry I don't think you can DM through itch.io. If you join the Discord server you can message me directly or request a key in the key-request channel. You can drop the server immediately after if you want, not trying to recruit for the server :)
https://discord.gg/BdT4DMPE
it may be prudent to nerf the 3PW "all cards are free" card for the ninja - using it in conjunction with the 1PW increasing damage card means one turn kills on whoever is within range regardless of hp, and it's not hard at all to get 3 power if you play things right
depends on your vision of the game, but this seems a litttle too OP (or i might have just gotten REALLY lucky)
as a sidenote, i'm not quite sure how to loop - was that feature removed?
Thanks for the "insta-win" combo! Definitely not intended, it should only make the first cast free, and once it's placed back in hand it should cost the standard amount, so I'll have to patch that up.
As for looping, the beta has been removed and replaced with an actual limited-content demo. Characters, cards, upgrades, levels, etc. are all limited in nature to give a hint of the product and not the whole thing.
That said, in the next few weeks I should have the current beta version available on Steam that people can request to be let into. If you're interested in finding out about that I'll be making an announcement in the Discord channel when it's available.
Thanks for the feedback and post!
glad to be of any help! i'll certainly join the discord when i can - this is a really fun and intuitive game while still retaining a lot of challenge!
i'd also like to note that teleportation is extremely busted in certain room configurations - i was able to teleport into an area that was entirely blocked on all sides by walls with my low health ninja and use them as a farm for energy, which synergized nicely with my soldier's extreme tank build (multiple kitchen sinks, cover, passive damage). it was really satisfying to pull off, but i'm not sure that's intentional (certainly not as OP overall, but still)
another few things:
This game is amazing even in its current state. The only downside I could find is it's not very visually appealing.
I faced a lot of crashes during enemies' turns but I hope it would be fixed in the future. There is also this bug which applies the same debuffs on my Ninja when Flashbang detonated without him in range.
I'm so looking forward to the full version.
Thanks! I see a large number of crash reports recently that I'm assuming are from your sessions, and they are all patched in the current (soon-to-be-released) version! The Flashbang is working as intended, same with any grenades, that they affect any character, not just hostiles :)
Do you mind if I ask what you don't find visually appealing about the game? Do you enjoy pixel art at all? Other than some minor changes like small animations to give combat environments more life, there won't be any major overhauls to the graphics. But I'm always happy to take criticism into account for future works!
Thanks for noticing me. I don't hate pixel art at all. I'm not an expert at this so my opinion my be poor on this topic. Let's take Noita for a reference, it has beautiful explosions, light and water effects. I don't like that game for its gameplay but it sure have temped me and made a lot of people want to give it a try just by seeing those effects in the trailers. If you can give the game some more detailed explosions with more particles or some more characters' animations, it may give players a somewhat better first impression.
Yes, I know Flashbang affects all characters in its range but the bug I got applied the same debuffs on Ninja even though he's 3 tiles away from its perimeter. It occurred only on my first run so I'm not sure how to recreate it.
I also found this one bug happening quite a lot during the cards activation. When my cards got unhidden, it appears that my power wasn't consumed while the activated card came back to my hand. It can be repeated around 4 times or even infinitely before it is sent to the discard pile. I got this bug mostly with Hacked Pistol.
Thanks for the feedback! I spend so much time looking at the game that it all kind of blends together after the first thousand hours, so it's nice to have someone else take a stab at it.
The flashbang is odd but I can try to replicate it, or at least I'm aware of what to look for. Is it possible the Ninja and another character had the Linked buff, and it applied to both of them? Currently the only way to apply that is with the Engineer, so no enemy could have done it, it would have to be something you chose to do.
I thought I had removed the ability for player input during a card being discarded, but my guess is with the Hacked Pistol in particular it's allowing input during the turret activation. Thanks for the report! That type of issue is such an edge case that I doubt I'd have ever found it on my own.
It's a good game just a few wee bugs with how many times you loop the run and sometimes enemies crashes the game.
Also a suggestion
Is it possible to make a mobile version
I would buy it if it came to mobile for offline games. (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*.✧
Thanks! The looping is just in place right now to let you find more cards and synergies, and is absolutely not how the game will work. The complete game will have 3 full levels with a boss at the end of each.
Unfortunately I do not plan to release for mobile - initially it will be a PC-only release. If through some miracle it sells well enough I will consider console ports, but it wasn't designed with mobile in mind from the start, and there are so many pieces that would have to be completely redone to accommodate that.
The music, content, playability, and customization in this game is incredible.
However, I am experiencing freezing/crashing at the conclusion of combat.
Thank you for the kind words, and I'm sorry that you're experiencing bugs that are making your experience worse!
There are currently two known bugs that have been resolved in the next patch - infinite turrets being placed on a single cell, and a complete crash when the Timed Explosive detonates with no targets in range.
There are also other, harder to replicate bugs related to pathfinding and turn logic, which usually result in the game locking up. I am rewriting all combat logic from scratch to use a system that will not only help resolve most of these issues, but make it much, much easier to track down and locate similar problems in the future. This is the bulk of the work going into the patch for next month, and while it won't be noticeable to the player, it will be a huge benefit in the long run for the game itself.
If you're able to, press F8 and submit a bug report - it not only sends me what you type, but also object states and variable data that are helpful in tracking down what the game was doing when the crash happened to I can replicate and fix it.
Thanks again for your interest and for your post!
Thanks for the update. I've been sending them as they come. Hopefully you get them. Looking forward to the new patch!
Will the full release of this game be available on itch.io?
The full version will be for sale on Steam, and up until that version is released the demo will remain available on itch.io. I haven't yet decided if I will sell it on other storefronts or not, but it's definitely possible!
well, thanks for responding. I never buy games on Steam so I guess that's it for me. I wish you all the best.
I can't wait for the complete version of this. Had fun with the demo, though crash multiple times. I'm unable to beat the boss because of this. Would love to try again when it's patch
I had a lot of fun!
Latest update crashes as soon as I enter a Combat encounter/room.
Being able to review your deck when adding cards is HUGE, thanks!
Know I'm kinda late to the party, but in the hopes that this project is still under development, I thought I'd give some feedback :)
Just finished my first and only run (after the tutorial) in the second loop after encountering a bug that stopped me from progressing. I used the "report incident" shortcut (F8), and hope you can find the cause. Despite the abrupt end, I had a good time!
First off, my biggest concern is the lack of strategic importance put on positioning (at least when playing paladin and mountain). I realize this might be rooted in a balancing issue, but I hardly ever used move cards at all, and after the first loop, I got rid of them. The enemy will swarm at you regardless, and having a bunch of cards that can't deal or mitigate damage is simply a handicap. In addition, I got one upgrade that gave me permanent cover, and another that gave me dashes every turn.
Secondly, I never had a man down (though I obviously never got that far), but I can see how that mechanic could potentially be frustrating. It means struggling players will have a harder time from then on, with the odds gradually stacking up against them. Considering how few and weak your options of healing are, I'm guessing it's pretty likely for the same character to die repeatedly (as they are only revived with 5 hp)
Thirdly, I think the virus mechanic is really cool, especially how their severity scales with how much power they take to get rid off, but I found that I would often spare the last opponent in a room just to wait until I could remove them. This is somewhat reminiscent of healing with certain deckbuilds in "slay the spire" which you mention as an influence, but I still think it can become a chore. Without the experience to back it up, I also think it will be strategic to just get rid of all your bad starting cards in the first, easiest loop, where the handicap of a virus is manageable, but I don't think that's the most fun way to play. Maybe make the power-cost decrease per room/battle instead of per use?
Fourthly, a couple of ui-issues: As someone else just mentioned, there are several points where I get a prompt to make a choice, and can't look at my decks or upgrades. I might just be spoiled after "into the breach", but I would also love some way of checking the enemy turn-orders (though I can see how this could be a little too "gamey"). There were also a few times where I wanted to check the AOE of a card, but had to make the power for it first. I think it would be nicer if you could select a card, even if you can't afford it.
Fifthly, I think the shield-mechanic is interesting, but has a few problems. It's already a bit weird that the shield you get from cover stays with you once you leave it, or that it helps you against attacks from behind, but once I got used to that, it didn't bother me. The real problem is scaling, and how after just one loop, enemies started dealing so much damage that the 3 shield you got from cover is almost negligible. It ends up as sort of a wasted mechanic with little impact. Maybe increase the amount gained from cover per loop? Also, the fact that almost half of the attacks that hit me would deplete all the shield I had, regardless of the amount, and how this obviously led to the "armored" status-effect just to counter it, is a bit clumsy. It makes going for a shield-build seem unreliable. Maybe remove or reduce the amount of shield-drain enemies, and make shields slowly deplete per turn instead?
Sixthly (are these even words anymore?), I think character-locked upgrades is frustrating. Several times I leveled up and got new upgrades, just to find that both characters got the one I wish I could put on the other, rendering them nearly useless. Especially since you have the upgrade rooms where you actually do get to choose as a comparison. One of the great joys in any tcg or rpg is the feeling of optimizing your build, and this made them feel clunky and imperfect.
Seventhly, I was a bit confused on this point, but I believe you only draw cards up to your hand-limit every turn. This means you are sort of punished for not spending all your cards, because you'll draw fewer in the turn to come (allowing you to play fewer cards overall). This incentivises individually strong cards instead of synergies (which are more fun in my opinion). There might be some aspect to this I haven't realized, but otherwise, I would heavily suggest to just allow the player to draw a set amount of cards, the delayed turn is punishment enough!
I'm not going to delve into features that are just a matter of more content, like more diverse enemies or interactable objects on the battlefields, but I do hope you make the card-pools character specific (the decks of my paladin and my mountain ended up very similar).
I also wanted to mention the theme, even if it isn't strictly criticism. I think what you touch on with the viruses and the sci-fi tech like teleportation is really cool, and I'd love to see this game take that matrix-esque direction. I'm personally a bit put off by the "modern warfare"-aesthetic, and I also guess some of the more lacking mechanics and designs are pulled along with it. I'm not suggesting to make the whole dungeon a simulation or anything (though saying that, it does sound cool), but it's something to consider.
As someone interested in game-design, I had a lot of fun writing this out, and if you can find some use for it, that would just be an added bonus!
PS: Sorry for the long comment!
Hi, thanks a lot for all of your feedback! I'll address what I can in response :)
Clearly I need to make this more apparent, but Paladin and Mountain are just randomly-generated names - both of those characters are of the Soldier class and have the same deck and upgrades to choose from. Currently there are two classes in game, the Soldier and the Ninja, with at least one more (Engineer) planned. I recently added the ability to play as the same class just to give people another option since playing as just the Soldier and Ninja each time could get repetitive.
The looping is just a temporary solution to let the player see and experience more deck and upgrade synergies - the full game will have three environmental levels to complete, each with unique enemy encounters. A lot of the enemies in the first (and only) level are melee, pistol, and shotgun enemies, which forces them to get into close range to the player. While the option for a non-movement deck should be a possibility (with things like stacking Stealth for the Ninja or long-range sniper cards for the Soldier), movement cards are admittedly not as important for the Soldier as they are for the Ninja or Engineer.
Funny enough, your point about viruses is one I put a lot of thought into, as optimizing the fun out of something is always what good players will do, and what you described is exactly how I saw it playing out. In my current build, I've changed removing cards to be an option post-combat instead of adding a card. I feel that missing out on a card or money is (for now) a fair price to pay for removing a card, and viruses can also be removed this way. I like allowing the player to remove viruses during combat, too, though. By trashing the virus once it's recycled, it ensures that if you want to wait it out like you chose to, you have to suffer its effects each turn as you can't just recycle it and wait for it to be drawn again once combat is safe. Once the game is better-balanced, hopefully the penalty of not only losing a card slot to keep it in-hand, but the negative effects themselves each turn, will be a better risk/reward choice than the optimal choice to make every time.
The current Shielding mechanic is after numerous iterations, and apart from the Soldier having the option of playing a "tank" class, it's meant to prevent or reduce damage from a single attack. This is another important aspect of movement cards - since you can view the attack range of enemies, and always have their intended target and action, movement becomes a defensive option to prevent them from reaching you to attack. I'm not saying it's perfect, and I'm sure some more adjustments will occur, just giving you the reasoning behind it :)
For upgrades, each character class has around 15 unique upgrades, and there are 10 upgrades that are class-neutral. The class-specific ones are always chosen from for reaching level 3 (also I hate the term 'level' for that and need a better phrase/graphic), and the shop will contain 1-2 character-specific upgrades. Neutral upgrades are always at least one shop option, and are always chosen from upgrade machines. I think your frustration was coming from playing the same class for both characters and seeing ones you wanted to swap with. Since levelup upgrades are class-specific, and require the character to have three consecutive combats without dying to gain, there are no plans to allow them to be swapped between characters.
I went with the option to draw up to your hand size each turn for two reasons - one, initially it was a simple discard/redraw each turn. I like that style because it forces you to work with what you're given rather than what you want, but I also liked the option to 'set up' plays yourself. Since NOT recycling a card reduces your power gain each turn, I made the change to let the player choose to not recycle a card and hold on to it between turns. If the player can hold cards and then draw ADDITIONAL cards each turn, this would produce strategies to run and hide for as long as possible to build up a giant hand, and then unload everything at once. By capping the hand size each turn, it still retains that 'work with what you have' strategy, while providing the option to save up for a wombo-combo if you're willing to make some sacrifices to do so.
Finally, the theme is absolutely cyberpunk, and additional character, environment, and ability designs should reinforce this as more content is added :)
Thanks again for all of the feedback, you've given me a lot to think about and work with, and that's the best thing I can ask for!
Thanks for the in-depth answer! Looking forward to playing when it's further along in development :D
It was maybe a bit arrogant of me to write such a lengthy review based on a single, unfinished play-through (obviously, my misconception about the classes solves quite a few of my issues (Not a ridiculous mistake, one of them were named "paladin" :P)). Looking at the character-specific upgrades again, I also think it will solve itself automatically once the shop has more stuff I'd want (so taking cash instead doesn't feel like you're foregoing one of the limited options for a permanent upgrade). I don't think you should underestimate how much better some of the upgrades are compared to cards though! (as they don't cost power, don't take up a card slot AND goes into effect immediately), so missing out on an upgrade should pay very well!
If shield was supposed to always disappear with a single hit, I think I ran into another, tiny bug
I see your first point about the hand-limit, but I don't think the "save up cards, then unload all at once" strategy sound so bad. In my experience, the only time i could use movement to "run away from danger" was against melee-enemies on the first turn, and it requires you to somehow mitigate the damage on the turns where you aren't doing anything. Also, these "god-turns" where you just decimate the enemy and feel super clever and powerful can be kind of fun. You obviously know the systems wayyy better than me though, so if you think it would break the game, you're probably right ;)
Rooting for you, good luck!
Unless I'm just missing how, it sure would be nice to be able to see a character's current deck when deciding on a new card to add.
I talked to you in Discord about this, but thanks for the suggestion, it'll be in the game next patch!
Me: I wonder what would happen if you crossed XCOM with Slay the Spire?
Whispering Spider: You're welcome.
I am loving this so far. It's a whole lot of fun and has a lot of strategic decision making. The only thing I have a little trouble with is that there isn't really a lot of early aggro management, so it's extremely hard to keep my ninja alive until I start getting cards like Doppelganger, All for One, Meat Shield, etc. Is there a rhyme or reason to the targeting of enemies, or is it random? I usually have about 75% of mobs in a room targeting the ninja, so I'm not sure if this is totally random or intentional.
Either way, keep up the great work!
Thanks a lot! Those two games are definitely influences, and I hope that my game is unique enough to build off of other games that I look to for inspiration :)
As for your question about aggro management, currently enemy target selection is 100% random. Way back in the day when it was a straight SRPG things like threat, distance-to-target, and target HP were all built-in to the AI. Since making the shift to cards, however, it became super not-fun to juggle aggro on top of random abilities each turn, so enemies choose their ability, and then have a 50/50 chance to target each player character if it's an offensive ability.
For now that's how it's likely to stay, but I understand the frustration of a streak of bad luck, so at some point down the line I may add some kind of 'bad luck protection' where it will weight the other character's chances of being selected higher after consecutively choosing the same character.
Thanks again for your interest, kind words, and feedback, and keep your eye out as a pretty large patch will be released in the next day or two!
As far as looking to games for inspiration, I always think about Doom and Diablo. Back when they were released, everyone (myself included) called similar games Doom clones and Diablo clones. But now they are First Person Shooters and Action Role Playing Games.
You can have a game that wears its inspiration on its sleeve and still distinguish it with unique mechanics or settings, just as Hostile Takeover does. It's not a "Slay the Spire" clone, but a Tactical Roguelike Deckbuilder.
For the aggro portion, maybe one of the ninja's starting cards could be one that helps offset squishiness. Dodge helps, but there are a ton of times where I need more than one move and the +3 shield doesn't usually help all that much. Meat Shield is definitely my favorite, and doesn't push you towards a certain build like any of the clone cards would.
Anyway, just my two cents. I'm exicted to see the new patch, and I'll be playing this a lot for the forseeable future.
Very well implemented game mechanics. Very fun for the deck-builder in me. I like the strategy of choosing between which cards to use and which to recycle. Makes combat more interesting, like a simplified version of chess. Looking forward to future updates!
Some notes follow:
The boss could use more minions or perhaps some special moves, as he's not much challenge. I wish there was a separate screen for the Upgrades, as it seems like its going to run out of space during my 3rd loop. Plus, it would just be more visually appealing. The taunting cards should actually play some kind of sound when used. There should be an indicator and/or a lockout method for trying to purchase/choose an upgrade you already have. As such, I actually bought TWO Steroids cards from the shop thinking they would stack with the other one I had already found, when sadly all I did was waste 200+ credits.
I have some issues with combat not resolving when using the Soldier's base shotgun cards (I think its called Buckshot?). It only started happening after my 2nd loop and also after I modified one of them to have 0 cost/Trash. Since then, about a third of the time I use a Buckshot (be in the 0 cost one or not) the card will do damage but then stops and never allows me to continue my turn. The red range indicators still appear so I suspect whatever event controls the ending of that card is bugged?
Hi, thank you so much for the kind words, and especially for the feedback!
Would you mind expanding on what you mean by a separate screen for the Upgrades? To view which upgrades you have installed? Currently you can view those when viewing your deck in the upper-left, but I know it's not ideal and it likely won't be the final way to view them.
I'll have to look into why existing upgrades are being offered up, that's definitely a bug! Right now it should just give you a generic +MaxHP mod if no other upgrades are available, but clearly that's not the case.
As for the game getting stuck after using an ability, that's an old bug that I hoped was finally resolved as of version 0.811, which was released Friday 8/11. Is that the version that you were playing? If so, it's back to the drawing board for that problem. Also if it gets stuck on you again, pressing F8 will allow you to submit a bug report which also grabs the state of all in-game objects and sends it to me, which is a huge help in tracking down bugs!
Thanks again for the interest and the feedback, it's much appreciated :)
Not a problem. I'm happy to give my feedback on something I had so much fun with.
Upgrades:
Yes, to view which ones I have currently installed. Correct, they are shown in the upper-left when viewing your deck. My issue is that after so many loops through the game it will very likely be the case that I will run out of room for them in such a small horizontal space. That's all. It'd be nice to see their art in original size as well. That's why I was asking for a separate screen for them, pretty much identical to how you view your deck.
As far as the upgrades in the store, I never ran across one that increased my max HP (that would have been very useful!) but perhaps that's because I didn't buy every single upgrade that was offered to me, only the ones that seemed worthwhile. But yes, during my 2nd loop the store offered not one but two Steroids cards for my characters to purchase, even though I already had one installed on my Ninja.
Version:
Ahhh, I see. I currently have version 0.719 so perhaps that bug did in fact get fixed. I'll keep the F8 reporting function in mind in case things happen again. In the meantime it seems I need to download the newest version. I suspect that means it'll restart my progress, which means I still don't get to try out that third character yet LOL.
Also, nice to see a developer responding to feedback! Good on you :)
Thanks for the additional kind words :)
When the character windows are opened I'm working on putting in tabs on the left-side to switch between characters, and tabs at the top to switch between Cards and Upgrades using the same card view. Hopefully that should help alleviate that issue!
I'll have to look into why the upgrades aren't looping properly, that one is definitely a bug. Each upgrade should never be offered twice, and since there aren't enough upgrades currently in-game to handle looping, it should just offer the +MaxHP upgrade when it runs out for now.
Currently the Engineer isn't in-game yet, so there's no progress to be lost :X The next patch is making the final changes to core systems (card removals and viruses are getting reworked) and filling out the remainder of the core cards for the Soldier and Ninja. The Engineer will likely be next, so she should be playable sometime in early October.
If you're interested in keeping up with things and providing more feedback Discord is a great place for it, and sometimes other people will chime in with their thoughts, too! If you want to join here's a link, and if not that's cool, too. Thanks again!
https://discord.gg/BdwueB6
Hey, no problem! I'm happy to offer constructive criticism (especially if it means the game gets better!)
Tabs would be awesome and I think a great way to save space.
I never did try to click the Engineer, so that's why I had mentioned it in my previous comment. After I had beaten the game once, her character art was in color instead of black and white so I was certain I had unlocked her. I was afraid I'd end up losing all the good stuff I'd built up already so I didn't try a new game. Speaking to that, would it be possible to have a few save slots instead of just the current game you have going?
I'm on Discord for voice acting projects so I have no problems joining your server. I'll do that now and leave these comments here. Thanks for your hard work!
Edit: BTW I just wanted to mention that I can't speak to anything regarding Viruses. I actually never died and had to gain one XD
This game is Amazing! I can't wait to see what else you have in store!
Thanks, and me too! I hope I can keep new content interesting and exciting :)
This is fantastic. It's like a cross between "Into the Breach" and "Slay the Spire" with a little bit borrowed from "X-COM."
Please finish this game! I can tell you're on the cusp of something great here.
Thank you so much! As the game has shifted into what it is today I definitely don't hide its influences. I just hope that it's unique enough to offer something different than the other games currently available :)
I love the recylcing feature, it makes the game so much more intresting, I love it!
Thanks! I think the recycling adds a lot more options and choices than a simple mana/power bar that refills every turn, and I'm glad at least one other person agrees :)
Hey! This game is really great! I appreciate the mechanical considerations and enjoy the tactical problems posed by each challenge. I'll tell my friends about it and I look froward to seeing how it will develop.
Hey, thanks a lot! I'd love to hear any feedback (especially negative) that you have. If you're interested in providing any I've got a Discord server with channels specifically for providing feedback - https://discord.gg/BdwueB6. If not, no big deal, and thanks again for playing!